A LOT with Audra

Ep89
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A Shift You Feel
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​[00:00:00]

Audra Dinell: [00:01:00] Today's guest is Keveney Avila, founder of The Interior, and we're talking all about that little inkling you may have felt before or you may even be experiencing right now. It's that feeling you get when something inside has shifted, but you can't exactly put your finger on it.

We go several places in this conversation. If you're curious about energy work, but it feels a little intimidating, or you're at a place where the life you have built no longer fits, you are gonna love listening to this conversation.

Welcome, Keveney. So glad to have you today on the podcast. Thanks for being here

Keveney Evanne Avila: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat

Audra Dinell: I know.

From Law to Intuition
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Audra Dinell: We got connected, and your story is just so unique. So I'm curious if you would start there. Tell us about your vocational [00:02:00] path

Keveney Evanne Avila: Okay. So it's been a bit of a journey, but in a nutshell, I went to law school. I practiced law for 10 years, and I mostly practiced employment and immigration, immigration. I did a lot of work with unaccompanied immigrant children and human trafficking survivors in pro bono capacity. And then I've always, my whole life, had a special connection with animals. And been-- was a very sensitive kid, although if you called me that when I was a kiddo, it would not have gone well. But it's true. And I-- my dog was my best friend as an only child.

Dog Seizures Wake Up Call
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Keveney Evanne Avila: And to my mid-thirties, and I-- one of my Labradors had five massive seizures in the middle of the night. And I knew, I just intuitively, instinctively knew that it was my stress, my anger, my frustration.

I hated my day job, loved my pro bono work, but hated my day [00:03:00] job. That was causing... She was picking up that energy and I had, guess, a mystical experience on the way to the vet that morn-- in the middle of the night. I just knew what the vet was gonna tell us. She was an older dog. She was a rescue.

She was a big dog. And I just kept hearing, "You're gonna have to put her down. They're gonna say she had an aneurysm or has cancer." And I just knew with all my being like it was my energy that she couldn't absorb anymore. And so I took her to the emergency vet, took her to the regular vet in the morning.

They knocked her out on phenobarbital. I brought her home, and I took ten days off work, and I just did what I did as a kid. I started... I mean, I've always-- I would say energy is my first language. I've always felt and seen energy, and I, just started doing what I did when I was a kid, which was moving and playing with energy and what I would now probably call prayer, although I didn't have those words at the time.

And on [00:04:00] the ninth day, she popped up. She acted like a puppy again. She never had another seizure, and I got out of corporate.

Audra Dinell: Oh my gosh

Keveney Evanne Avila: So that was, that was the journey out of corporate.

Audra Dinell: Wow. Okay, and so what did that... I, love in your story, you know, you're this achiever, you became this attorney, but you tapped back into your love and passion as a child, and then that led you to this breaking point. What happened next?

Quitting Corporate Leap
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Keveney Evanne Avila: What happened next was I told my husband, that was in, the fall. And so I told my husband, "I'm giving myself about 60 days to resign." I knew that when we left for Pennsylvania in December, early December, 'cause I spend the holidays there, that I was putting in my resignation. And so I did that. And my husband is corporate finance.

He's VP of finance, so he's all about the numbers.

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: you know, he said, "So what are you gonna do?" And I said, "I'm gonna [00:05:00] start my own business." And he said, "What are you gonna do?" And I said, "I'm gonna do energy work with animals." And he's like, "Okay." And so that was my plan.

Animals to Human Healing
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Keveney Evanne Avila: What I learned was in doing the work with the animals, I ended up working with the humans.

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: Because when we can work on the human stuff, then a lot of the animal stuff, whether it's behavioral or physical tends to oftentimes disappear. And what really happened was, you know, most of my friends are attorneys or, you know, in the finance, accounting fields 'cause that was our world. Those, those were our worlds.

And so they started saying, you know, "How are you making money doing this?" Because I made more money my first year as an entrepreneur working with animals and their humans than I did ever in corporate

Audra Dinell: Yeah, that blows my mind

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah, I was in flow. I was in flow, for sure. and so I started doing what, you know, clients would call energetic business coaching [00:06:00] or prosperity mentoring, so really helping people to work on the internal stuff,

Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm

Keveney Evanne Avila: doing their own, like, shadow work, looking at the parts of them that are creating the same things we don't want over and over again really taking responsibility for the good, bad and the ugly.

And It ended up some people, you know, I helped them to create harmony and stay in their job. Others we figured out, "Okay, what, what is really my purpose? What is my meaning? What, what do I love, and how do I wanna monetize that?" And so I was kind of helping people, you know, kick the corporate grind and, keep the corporate salary was sort of what people were...

You know, my tagline became. and then in 2020, I was in the middle of a retreat, leading a retreat, and I just had this, this spiritual experience again where I'm like, "This is not... I did not leave corporate to just help people make money," right? and so that's when I shifted away from all of the, like, prosperity mentoring, so to speak.

I still do the [00:07:00] same work but I really... That's when I shifted to more of the private accompaniment, kind of a combination of spiritual direction with mentoring, with guiding. And so that's what I've been doing. I mean, I, I left corporate in 2016, so in my mind, I've been doing pretty much the same work since I left.

It's the internal work with people.

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: you know, it's had different... You know, from the outside looking in, it's looked like it's gone through different, like, an evolution. But at the end of the day, I'm, I'm doing the same stuff with people.

Audra Dinell: Yeah. That's so amazing.

Energy Made Practical
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Audra Dinell: So if someone is listening and they're new to the concept of energy Where would be a safe place for them to start getting curious? And I mean safe in the way that they might be open to [00:08:00] exploring, because it's just like a tip in the water. It's just a little touch

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah I mean, I, I have clients of all religion, no specific religion, clients that identify as spiritual but not religious clients that are more into quantum physics than, you know, what we might call spirituality. And so I pretty much meet the client where they are. And I do my best to use their language.

For me, whether you call it, you know, energy or intention or prayer or, you know, we can go down the quantum physics rabbit hole the idea is that there is... you know, the way I kind of explain it is if you think about, you know, if your heart stops, what happens? They pump energy into you, right? To try to revive you.

So Everything is energy at a base level. And then from there, you know, we know some people might call it, you know, the power of positive thought, they might call it prayer, positive intention. but just this idea that, [00:09:00] everything-- it's not just our actions, right? Our thoughts, our words, our feelings, everything goes into what we're co-creating.

And you can believe that you're co-creating with just an ultimate energy, with God, with Source, you know, whatever your word is.

and I've even had some clients that come to me that are like, "I don't, you know, I, I don't really believe in a higher power." So then we talk, you know, we go very basic ener- like energy in a science level.

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: I do think, you know, for the work to work, right, the work that I do, there needs to be some openness to something bigger than us, right? It can look

Audra Dinell: Okay.

Keveney Evanne Avila: but an openness that there is... Even if you call it, you know, I have some clients that call it the thinking stuff, right? There's just this stuff in the world that co-creates and, you know, it, , it's a thinking substance.

And that we can kind of use our own actions and our intentions to kind of help to mold that. That's kind of-- Does that answer your question? That's [00:10:00] sort of where I start.

Audra Dinell: That does answer my question because it makes energy a label that's accessible, because you're using the word "energy," and depending on what someone believes in, it could be science, it could be God, it could be universe, spirit, it could be any of those things, but you're just using the word "energy" as just a foundation for the conversation.

So that feels so accessible.

Success That Stops Fitting
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Audra Dinell: How do most people describe this feeling or coming to this place in life where they're ready to work with you because they've built this whole life that maybe no longer feels like them?

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah, I work with most of my clients, I work with women and men. Most of my clients are in their early mid-50s to early 60s.

Audra Dinell: Oh, that's interesting

Keveney Evanne Avila: So I'm in my mid-40s. And I've had, I think, two clients ever in their 40s, [00:11:00] maybe three. So most of... Even when I was in my 30s, most of my clients were in their 50s.

Now those clients are in their 60s, a lot of

Audra Dinell: Okay

Keveney Evanne Avila: So they're typically people who have... They've built a life, right? They've created a good life. They've created success, whether as an entrepreneur, as, you know, in corporate world. They've created a life, and oftentimes that come, has come at the expense of, you know, their own health, their relationships, time with their family.

Sometimes they're, they're sitting with pieces of the faith that they grew up in that no longer fit their conscious in the, in, you know, the world that's ever-changing. And so they're people that they've created success, and from the outside, oftentimes you know, everything looks great. But there's some type of a fracture internally where either they feel like they've lost their meaning, what are they doing this for?

Yes, I've made all this money, but for what? Or they're at a crossroads in a relationship, whether it's with their children, with their spouse, with a [00:12:00] partner. or maybe they're just, you know, maybe they have been in a career that's been great, and now it just, it doesn't hold them the way it once did. And so I work with people at a lot of crossroads, thresholds.

Naming Hidden Grief
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Keveney Evanne Avila: One thing that I realized is kind of a common thread that's been in all of my work, whether it was going back to high school when I, you know, was an advocate at a domestic violence shelter and I would go to the hospital with women who had just been raped if they wanted an advocate with them, to the work I did as an attorney in a pro bono capacity with the immigrant children or the human trafficking survivors, to the work that I did with people, you know, that called me their energetic business coach, or called me their life coach or whatever they called me.

The common thread is often grief. And so although they don't necessarily name it that, sometimes there's a divorce or there's a death where there's a clear loss or there's, you know, a diagnosis where my body isn't holding me the way it once [00:13:00] did. It isn't working for me. Often times there's this kind of low gra- I call it a low-grade grief fever because they're grieving an identity that, you know, some- they thought they f- somebody they thought they coulda, woulda, shoulda been, right?

They're not where they thought they were, or they're at a different place and very successful, but it doesn't feel like what they thought. And so that's kind of, you know, I listen for that, what I call grief,

Audra Dinell: Yeah, and you know I actually love that you pulled that out and I think we should stay there for a little bit because oftentimes I think when we think about grief we think of like a death or something major permanent but i-... There's also smaller, like you said underlying grieves in our everyday experience that we often don't name because we think the word grief is reserved for the big things When it's like [00:14:00] no, no, No, no It can show up in a million little ways in our lives And sort of deserves to be named and as a part of the human experience

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, even a job loss, right? Whether it was chosen or not, whether it was a layoff or a termination or you chose to leave, there's often-- there's a grief that goes with it. There's a loss of... There's an identity piece, right? There's, you know, you, you-- maybe you know what doesn't fit, but you don't know what-- who you're becoming or where you're going.

Audra Dinell: Oh, yes

Keveney Evanne Avila: you know, having that space.

Sitting In The Dark
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Keveney Evanne Avila: And I think we so often look to... And I think, I mean, there's obviously there's, great value in having counsel, and I have a lot of clients who have been in therapy or have worked with a lot of different coaches or mindset medi-meditation, you know, those kind of modalities.

But I think what we've lost as a society is, you know, we don't have... If you think about [00:15:00] a traditional, more like spiritual director, you know, and I've had amazing and some not amazing coaches throughout my journey. And it wasn't until I started working with, someone who, you know, identifies more as a spiritual director.

I mean, he's, he's a mystic. He has, He's a scholar of many religions, right? So he's not affiliated with a specific church. But it was someone to sit in the darkness with me, right? To just sit and be and help me to, you know... It's not another framework. It's not another, you know, thing to do or to create.

Sometimes it's just we have to, like-- I always think of, you know, I, I'm a, I'm a student of the Carmelite and medieval mystics. Those guys are my, my best friends. And so you know, I think of John of the Cross, and I think of, you know, the only way out is through. And we so often try to bypass the grief and the pain and the sorrow and the upset, and we try to just say, "Okay, what can I do?

How can I fix it? How can I solve it?" [00:16:00] And grief that we don't-- if we don't mourn and we don't grieve, it takes residence in our body. It takes residence in our energy. so sometimes we just need somebody to sit in the darkness with us without flinching and help us to hold that space for, know, evaluating all of the things, but not having to come to an easy solution, right?

Or a quick solution.

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: through, go through it

Choosing One Life
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Audra Dinell: When you said the word identity, I think something really hit home for me. At The Thread we have branched out to different markets, and last year I chose to put a pause on a market, and I remember he- feeling such grief, and that sort of started [00:17:00] this year and a half long, "This is who I've been, but who am I now?

What, next for me?" So, and then I turned 40 this spring, so a year later, and in that year I remember experiencing so much, grief is the word I used, over the identities and the lives that I'll never have. Does that make any sense?

Keveney Evanne Avila: Totally

Audra Dinell: Like, we only have this one life, and, you know, I'd love my life to look about 100 different ways, but the reality is what it takes to build a life, you can always start over, you can always make a change, but probably not 100 times and get to that, like, vision that you have.

And I just remember it hitting me one day, right [00:18:00] around 39, right when we were closing this market that we had expanded to, I remember just feeling grief and, like, realization for the first time of oh my gosh, I'm turning 40 in a year. And that is a halfway point for many people if you look at the statistical average.

Wow, I'm not going to get to live all the lives I want to live. Which one am I going to choose? And have you ever worked with people who kind of like do stop and starts because they can't choose

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah, absolutely

Audra Dinell: Yeah, you laugh. Yeah,

Sacrifice And Flow
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Keveney Evanne Avila: And I think, I mean, I think, like, I'll try not to get on my biggest soapbox, but we're coming up on it.

Audra Dinell: Yeah, please. Let's, let's get on the soapbox

Keveney Evanne Avila: we live in a world where, I mean, like, positive psychology, and we live in such a world... And I'm not even just talking about the United States, but I mean globally, we've become, but I think specifically, like in America, I mean, we, we are a country of [00:19:00] excess, and we have been kind of fed this, what I would call lie, of everything is supposed to feel good, everything is supposed to be happy, everything is supposed to go well. We're not supposed to feel sad. I always say, like, show me a true mystic or a sage or, you know, I don't care if you wanna go to religion, any high text, right?

Show me a prophet. Show me somebody who is someone that we want-- you know, we might aspire to be like who hasn't had sacrifice,

Audra Dinell: Uhm, ja.

Keveney Evanne Avila: And whether we call it mystical law or universal law, I mean, there are certain forces in the world that when we learn to live in alignment with them, things go a lot more smoothly.

And interestingly, I, I was in law school, I worked at the n- navy base in Newport, Rhode Island. I was an intern there at a think tank, and part of my job was researching flow and peak performance, which also got into kind of mysticism and spirituality. And we [00:20:00] were looking at how can we drop elite teams into flow maybe they're not marching for a day, right?

They just get there and boom, they have to perform and they have to execute. and so we were looking at all these different ways to kind of hack the human brain. And I think that, you know, in all of the traditions and all of this, you know, everything that I am a student of, there is this law of sacrifice, right?

There is... You know, sometime-- We, we live in this world where we can have everything, but the truth is we're only human, right? Like we can become superhuman for a minute. We can get into flow. We can have those moments. the end of the day, know, there is truth to sometimes you have to pick, right?

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: And, there is a loss, especially when we're living in a world where we're told we can have everything, then we feel like we're a failure or we feel like, you know, "What's wrong with me that I [00:21:00] can't?" And so I think that's the piece where, when I work with people, some of it is just sort of almost like a reframing and a reprogramming to help them look at like, lets look at what you have created, right?

And maybe it's... I mean, I was, you know, I was a good lawyer, right? I mean, there's lots of good lawyers. but you know, if you think.. If anyone has read the book The Big Leap Gay Hendricks talks about, like, your zone of genius, your zone of, what is it? Genius- Excellence and something else. I'm drawing a blank.

But you know, just because we are good at something and we can do it well doesn't mean it's our like genius or, you know, our charism, our soul purpose. so what I have found when you can... You know, when I can work with people and they may have done 10 different things in their life, to them they're completely not related, but I can look at it and see here's the golden thread.

Audra Dinell: [00:22:00] Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: And then when we can... You know, you get to choose, right? Your choices are always yours. I don't make choices for my clients. But it's like, okay, if we can see this golden thread we can start to see why, oh, well, okay, I stopped serving this population, maybe here's why, right? And we can kind of have more of a, a peace with it, and we can choose to go where we're, where we best can serve.

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: and I think when we can fall into our, you know, whatever you call it, soul purpose, charism, zone of genius, we can really be in that space, that's when we have the flow and that's when, you know, we start to be able to live in alignment internally and externally and the things that we're...

Gut Energy Over Mindset
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Keveney Evanne Avila: Oftentimes we think we know what we want. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. but even if we think we know, we're like, "I'm doing all the things and it's not working." You know, like I'll have people come to me and say, [00:23:00] "You know, I'm, doing the, the positive thinking and I've got my affirmations, and I'm working with a coach, and I'm do- taking the actions."

but one, it might not be like it may have been chosen for us and we might not even realize it. And the other thing too is we can never outthink the energy that's in our gut.

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: that's where I work with people a lot because you can do all the positive affirmations, mindset shifts, work with coaches.

If what you're feeling inside is shame, lack, fear, that is, that is where we radiate and attract. That is what's going out and creating

Audra Dinell: Ooh, I have in the past let's say, I don't know how many years but really honed... Not honed in but become aware of like my thinking versus yeah that, that feeling, that gut, that intuition and in fact on the way to [00:24:00] our podcasting session today I was listening to an activation about clearing the static because my brain just pops with so many ideas and the thinking can just get so out of hand and it's such a gift but can be a double edged sword when the thinking takes over and I don't check in with my body.

In fact, I was also in a conversation last week with someone in a group talking about how do I know when to say yes versus no when something is being requested or me? And one of the things that came up was your body knows. Get quiet enough to listen to that because it will tell you even if you don't like the answer, even if your brain can talk you outta the answer because it can.

Yeah. So I'm curious. You now, your work, the golden thread for you has been just this inner work but that's not the first place people [00:25:00] tend to go when they're facing a challenge or chaos. We kinda go external with the podcasts and the books and advice so let's talk a little bit about that

Building The Inner Container
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Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah, I think it's very true, right? And we, and we go... It c- might be the podcasts and the books and the, you know, online courses that are relatively accessible, or it might be tens of thousands of dollars on very expensive executive coaches or you know, mindset folks or, you know, all of the different...

We tend to go to the external.

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: and I think, you know, that was... I mean, I did all of those things, right? When I left corporate. And what I realized was at some point - the journey must turn inward, right? At some point, like we are the common denominator in our life, whether we like it or not.

, And sometimes we live in a world, I mean, we live in a world where we, can't control anything, but we, we want to think that we can. and so [00:26:00] I think that's also the piece of, you know, when we can go internal, goal is not to make everything perfect and happy and hearts and flowers, right?

Like, that's not really reality. but it is to, develop the container, as I call it. You know, spiritual container, energetic container, inner container, to be able to hold of the things and not be consumed by any of them.

Audra Dinell: Yeah, I love that line

Keveney Evanne Avila: you know, and that, that's the mystical path, right? Being able to hold the greatest joy the deepest sorrow simultaneously.

, And as I've been on my journey, you know, part of the reason I reached out to, the spiritual director that I now have is I would be driving down the road in Houston, one minute I'm, like, singing, you know, my music, and I'm like, "Oh, it's a great day," and I'm in gratitude and everything. I'm looking at the flowers, and then I would see homeless person or God for-- you know, like, for me, a home- like, a dog in the street that's, you know, [00:27:00] doesn't have a home, and I would just, I mean, I would just ugly cry.

Like, I could be going to a meeting with makeup on, and it would just be running down my face. , And I realized, like, I can't-- I was holding both, but I wasn't doing it in a way that didn't break me.

Audra Dinell: Mm. So it's growing your capacity to hold both an emotional agility, which is a modality I'm certified in. Susan David, yeah, created it. She's a Harvard psychologist. She has this line of being able to hold the beauty and the despair in life, just that tension. So the, the skill is to grow your capacity to hold both things, to hold the full human experience without letting it wreck you

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah. And I think it applies, you know, it applies personally and it applies collectively, right? 'Cause sometimes there are things with our spouse, with our partner, with our, children, with our parents, you know, with our [00:28:00] friends that feel very personal. , And then sometimes it's just, like, the noise of the world, right?

There's a lot

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: that people are worried about in the world. and I think there was one thing that you said... Oh, , you know, I think the other, like, the other thread in my work that I realized, is, you know, what I really help people do, build the capacity, like build-- like fortify the container.

Discernment And Old Stories
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Keveney Evanne Avila: but it's all discernment, right? Discernment is something that we have lost, I think, and we don't even talk about it much. but you know, we're always intuiting, right? We are always getting messages. There's always input. But if we haven't developed our container and done our own inner work to be able to discern, am I intuiting from my ego, my friends, from the noise of the world, from fear, or am I actually tapped into my body, right?

I'm, I always tell clients, "Get below the neck." Like, this brain is the least smart. You know, like our [00:29:00] heart and our gut knows so much more sometimes. so having the discernment, because ego can mask as, like, profound spiritual knowledge, right? you know, old wounds can speak very loud and with authority.

all-- humans, we all have a need to be right, which not like, I want you to like what I like and prove things, but it's, really a need to be right is something happened to us, usually before age seven, unconsciously, we've made up a story of what that means. And then we just go out and we, pull in.

So, you know, I use the example of, you know, let's say you're an only child and you're maybe five or six years old, and mom and dad say, "Okay, we're gonna have a new baby." You don't consciously, as a five-year-old, or decide, "Oh, well, I must not be good enough. They have to have another child."

Audra Dinell: Right

Keveney Evanne Avila: in your energy, you might take on a version of that, and then we will pull in experiences.

It's why if we've, you know, if you've been in a relationship and someone's [00:30:00] been unfaithful, we might make a decision that all women, all men are cheaters or aren't loyal or whatever we decide, we will go out and pull in more and more of the same to prove ourselves right, 'cause that protects our ego. It protects us.

Audra Dinell: Ooh, how interesting. Okay, because when I didn't think we were going here with that first part when you said we all have this need to be right as humans, I didn't immediately realize that path and that connection , of course, we, see what we're looking for. We find what we're looking for, and I didn't really make that connection of like there are some uncovered stories that we created subconsciously about the meaning of things along our life, maybe specifically childhood, and we have been looking to prove ourselves right by attracting those situations again or being in that pattern again.

Simple Pause Practice
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Audra Dinell: So if someone's listening and they're like, [00:31:00] "Okay, I see myself in this. I want to be a person who grows my capacity to hold all that life has, the beauty and the despair and the decisions that are layered and not easy, and the loss and the flow and finding my genius," where, where could one start? Like, what is just like one simple tip you would have for someone who's like, "I, I hear myself, I see myself in this episode"?

Keveney Evanne Avila: I mean, I think the first thing to do is, To give yourself permission to pause, especially when you're feeling like, I don't love the word trigger, but when you're-- when you notice that this doesn't feel good, Or I'm... You know, oftentimes if we are either judging someone else we're making them wrong, that is often because of two reasons, right?

So if you notice, if you hear yourself in the story and you can think about a situation where-- or even just think of a person that you [00:32:00] tend to, like, have a negative story about, right? you know, stop and pause and say, "Oh, interesting. What is it about this person that I am judging?" Because oftentimes it's either, gosh, they have this quality that I'm making wrong because I wish I could be more like that,

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: are re-- like I call them bossy and outspoken or too loud, but I'm not-- I wish I could use my voice more.

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: it's the mirror and it's, I kind of am that way too, and I don't love it about myself, so I'm just gonna make it wrong about them.

Audra Dinell: Ja

Keveney Evanne Avila: know, so just pausing and even-- and also if you're in you know, if you start to-- I always say, if you start to feel the heat in your body, 'cause that's how ego shows up for me, like it's kind of a visceral thing.

if you start to notice... I mean, it can also be, you know, like one thing when we talk about energy, people are like, "Well, explain to me, what does that mean?" Like let's say you're out and about in the world, you're having a good day, and you [00:33:00] walk into a meeting, and all of a sudden you're just in a bad mood, Or you're sad. Just take a pause and be like, "Is this really mine?"

Because sometimes, you know, if we're, you know... I think empath gets thrown around a little too much these days, but-- 'cause we're all empaths, right? Some of us are tapped into the feelings more but we all have the capacity for empathy, I believe.

Doesn't always show up for everybody, and it shows up in different ways. But if you, if you notice, "I was having a good day, and all of a sudden I'm mad," just pause and just ask, "Is this mine?"

Audra Dinell: Right.

Yeah.

Keveney Evanne Avila: And just kind of get quiet..

Audra Dinell: Yeah, you know I did this this weekend we're working on a big renovation project and I was excited and just feeling in such a good energy space And then within the span of an hour A series of things happened and [00:34:00] I needed to take a break from the renovation To take my kids home and make them lunch and my youngest had an injury.

And I just noticed my body stirred up. I wouldn't have used the word triggered. And so if there's listeners who also don't like that word...I just notice like my mind stirred up and in my body-- Like I'm pointing to my chest Just like stirred up.

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah

Audra Dinell: And so I literally took out a Post-it Note And I was like just wrote down in one word The things that had transpired in that hour,and they were little things right?Like trying to leave and someone stopping me and giving me some long explanations because that person was trying to help me So all nothing bad inherently but just in that span a bunch of things external things hit me

And for me it was very helpful to just, be like okay wait a minute I was in an energy of like love and a [00:35:00] space that, you know, feels comfortable and good for me to be in , and now I'm feeling stirred up. Let's just pause and like you said, pause and be aware of like what happened and that was so helpful and then I ended up My mom came over to the house and, , I was talking with her about it and I was like, thanks mom that helped me. I Just, I wrote it down, So I saw it and then,

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah

Audra Dinell: shared It with her of like

i'm feeling really grumpy, and I think It's because in this last hour these things all happened

So,

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah

Audra Dinell: And It really works to just detach.

Keveney Evanne Avila: Mm-hmm

Audra Dinell: It's not that I necessarily got back to that amazing space I was in before, but to just be aware of like ok, this was other people's stuff, and now

Keveney Evanne Avila: And just not to continue to carry it throughout your day and your week and your... You know, 'cause we don't, we often don't take that pause.

Rinsing Off Energy
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Keveney Evanne Avila: And it's interesting 'cause I have, you know, clients that, you know, do different sorts of meditation, right? But w- the part that we, I think especially in the Western world, forget about meditation, if you go back to the ancient [00:36:00] teachings, whatever energy you go into meditation with, you are going to amplify.

Audra Dinell: Ooh

Keveney Evanne Avila: lot of people think like, "Oh, I'm so stressed, and I'm so this, and I'm so that, and I'm mad, and I'm gonna go meditate." Well, maybe not the best time to meditate, right? Like, and

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: like we need to have a way, whether it's journaling, whether it's doing energy work, whether it's prayer, whether it's just like you're taking a shower or, or literally going and rinsing off, right?

Like, we have to have a way sort of rinse off all of the stuff

Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm

Keveney Evanne Avila: that when we do go into, you know, do meditation or intention setting, we don't carry that same en- energy into it and amplify it.

Audra Dinell: Oh, that's good. I tend to like shake, like physically shake my hands off or walk or, , do movement in some way. That typically is a match for my energy when it's at that level. Because yeah, my brain won't meditate , when I'm there.

Keveney Evanne Avila: Yeah.

Audra Dinell: Yeah

Keveney Evanne Avila: I [00:37:00] mean, I think, like, you know, we all have diff- sometimes, like, I, I'll sit in complete silence, right? I'll have contemplative silence, and then I also do, like, sacred dance, or I do take my dog on a walk, like a moving meditation. And sometimes, you know, just, like, I used to...

People used to, , tease me in networking meetings because I would, like, you know, be at a networking lunch, and I would kinda, like, go like this and, like, pretend that I was, , dusting crumbs off my shirt or something. And my friends were like, "Why do you always do this?" , "There's nothing on your shirt."

But it was my version of, , not mine, right? Like, just, like,

Audra Dinell: Oh, yes

Keveney Evanne Avila: , Clapping. Like, sometimes if you're in a, if you're in a place, just standing up, clapping, snapping, you know, just shifting, moving the energy

Audra Dinell: Mm.

Keveney Evanne Avila: helpful

Audra Dinell: So helpful

Where To Find Keveney
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Audra Dinell: Okay, so where can our listeners find you and how can they work with you now?

Keveney Evanne Avila: , So I'm on LinkedIn. That's the only kinda social channel that I do. , And then my website. And one great place, if you're curious [00:38:00] about the work, we're on summer hiatus now, but we'll be starting back in October. I have a-- It's the first and third Thursday at 12 Eastern. , It's a free, It's called The Interior, it's a gathering.

, It's a place for kind of a guided gathering for inquiry and discernment. So if you're curious about, "How do I start to develop my discernment?" Or, you know, "How can I figure out where I am or where I wanna go?" , That's a great... Any- all are welcome. I typically will share a very short kind of loose teaching, we'll say.

, And then I'll ask a question, , and people can have some time to ponder it, to write on it if they want, and then we'll, you know, there's an opportunity to share and be witnessed. and silence is full participation too. So if you just wanna come check it out and sort of listen, , there's no... You're welcome to [00:39:00] participate as fully as is- feels comfortable for you

Audra Dinell: That's amazing. I'm excited, and that's so generous that you have that available twice a month free of charge, just a place where people can experience and explore.

Closing Thanks
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Audra Dinell: So we'll definitely link your website and your LinkedIn to the show notes of this podcast episode, and thank you

so much for taking your time to be here with us today

Keveney Evanne Avila: Thank you

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